That backbending post sparked some really interesting conversation and comments! Below is an abridged version of email correspondence between me and Laura of
Yogachi. She is very knowledgeable about anamtomy and movement, intimidatingly so! You can learn more about her at her blogs - for
yogis, and also one
specially for teachers. Thanks for all the awesome advice, Laura!
This does get a little long winded, but it is really worth the read I promise!
Nadine, did you try the dandasana on a block pose? We need to chat -- one hamstring injury to another!
Laura
Ooh, tell me more....
Does dandasana on a block help build stability? My main problem is that my hips have become so flexible in the forward direction, that my sitbones tend to flick up and my lower back overarch, unless I am really concentrating on my alignment, and of course, I am not always, especially when demonstrating! I just want people to get the gist quickly, so bad. So the injury heals, it flares up, heals flares up. I will take any and all advice! It works best for me so far to do a lot of work on strength and stability in the hips - esp the hamstrings, loose bastards, so I do a lot of locust etc.
I would LOVE to hear your thoughts Laura!
Nadine
Nadine,
Interestingly, our problems are similar, yet not. I have hamstrings
that are very tight (yogically speaking, that is. I went to a doctor
about my pull and he brought my leg easily to 90 degrees and
proclaimed me healed. He walked out before I even had a chance to say,
“uuhhh....”). The reason I ask is we can exchange notes. I can share what I have learned for my self and I would love to hear what you do.
Here is a list of what I do:
1. I learned how to hold the attachment of my hamstring. I contract
at the tendon right at the sit bone. I do that while lengthening
the rest of the hamstring. If you stand in Tadasana and
isometrically push one leg back, you can feel the necessary
contraction. (Sometimes I put a strap a the top of my thigh to
remind myself to contract.)
2. I do the dandasana I shared on my blog. REALLY helpful for
learning how to ground through the errant sit bone. Yes, I think
it does help build stability. As I mentioned in the post, you
feel the bones so you can tap into keeping them aligned. It
isn’t about the soft tissue anymore. You won’t flick the
sitbones either if you are in the bones.
3. I do seated forward fold with the extended leg heal up on a
block (and sitbones on a blanket). I can’t explain it, it just
helps.
4. I also ground well when I forward fold in seated positions to
not do what you mentioned doing in your email – flick those
babies up. Teaching is tricky. Not only do I do moves quickly, I
often exaggerate the movement so students can really see what I
am doing.
5. I also do LOTS of strengthening. I love bridge, too for
strengthening “that” area.
Okay, any ideas for me? Thanks for sharing!!
Have a spectacular evening.
Laura
Hey Laura!
You have pretty much covered all bases, I think. This is just about what
I do: I can elaborate a bit, but there is nothing you aren't doing, that
I know about! I really appreciate the reminder to be present even when
teaching, since this is my problemo...
The reason that propping your foot up on a block helps, is that it
'locks' the femur into the pelvis and prevents over-rotation. I didn't
figure this out for myself, read about it in
Yoga for Wellness by Gary
Kraftsow! Funny, most of the time we are trying to get people to move
their pelvis around the thighbone more, not less.
As to strength: I also love bridge, moving dynamically in and out of it,
then holding the pose. I do the same with baby locust, lifting chest,
arms, head and alternate legs, in and out with the breath, then both
legs together.
I have found that getting stronger in my core - lower back and belly -
has helped a lot with the 'floppiness' so I also practice urdvha
prasarita padasana (leg lifts) every day.
Since I am tight in the front of my hips, I have found also that regular
and assiduous stretching of the hip flexors and quads helps balance the
hips - basically mine are overstretched and weak at the back and the
opposite at the front. My favourites for this are warrior 1, warrior 3
(also really good for contracting the hamstrings) and some pigeon
variations. Moving in and out of pigeon forward fold is another good
back strengthener, I find.
My last thing is this: it seems that the injury shows up in the
hamstring but sometimes comes from over stretching the entire hip area -
including aggressive hip openers, and if you do less of this, it helps.
I have found this for people whose knees trouble them too, actually!
I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that most yogis spend too much
time on flexibility and not enough on strength...
Thanks for all the help!
Nadine
Hi, Nadine.
Fabulous! Thanks for explaining why foot on a block works. I love knowing why I am doing something — especially the physiology behind it. Thank you for that info. (I was going to call it a “tidbit” but it is so much more for me.)
I was thinking about your comment about getting our students to move their pelvis around the thighbones more, not less. You know, as I understand it, the injury occurs over time because the femur is not rotating tight within the socket, being “locked” in, but protruding out ever so slightly to be out of alignment. Apparently, many Iyengar practitioners are suffering from hip joint problems. I think it has to do with exaggerating the movement and the femur coming out a bit. (Hence what you telling me makes perfect sense.) It was part of my problem too. I thought the pain was from stretching the scar tissue in my hamstring, but it was pain in my joint from using it incorrectly for years.
As for your hip flexor, also add releasing the psoas. Are you familiar with Liz Brock’s book, The Psoas Book? She also had an article in Yoga Journal a few years back that is available on the YJ website. The psoas needs releasing first before stretching and it can drastically shift your hip flexor tension. Strengthening it will also transform your Urdhva Prasarita Padasana. (Everyday? You are amazing!! And I am inspired...) I have a YJ article written by Richard Rosen on that pose in which he talks about the psoas too. It was written in 1995 so I would guess it didn’t make it to the website but you can check. It is excellent for describing how to use the psoas and not the abdominals for the lifts.
Do you move in and out of pigeon forward fold with your arms overhead? Or just with out using your arms? I am curious how to do it to use it for strengthening the back. I do Salabhasana (locust) with arms overhead. Wow is that one amazing! It really helps get into the lower trapezius.
Ooohh...I am just moving through your entire email and responding as I go and just got to the part about too many hip openers. That is what I was talking about with the hip injury! Another recommendation to help “bring in” the femur is to do a practice with a strap running through your mid hip — just across the top of the femurs — the greater trochanter. Use the strap to draw the femurs in (it is subtle. It is easy to contract in the buttocks, but the action is lower, at the top of the thighs.) This action is especially important for seated forward folds and standing poses like Parsvottanasana and Parivrtta Trikonasana. And, yes, the issue affects the knee as well.
Peace and miracles of the hip joint...
Laura
And to finish, this comment which Kathy of
KnittingSutra (great name huh?) left on the original post:
Due to injuries I wasn't able to do forward bends for over a year. I feel your pain. In the beginning it really bugged me, but then you learn how to be real creative with your practice. You then begin to realize that yoga is real flexible, but I was the one with the rigid mind.
Food for thought!
My arms are not strong enough to do shoulderstand (although I wish they were!) and my teacher never pushed me to do it. I tried it anyway once and also made my neck sore.
It is a student's responsibility also to know their limitations. Any teacher who insists and insists upon them doing what they know they can't isn't a good teacher.
People should listen to their bodies and teachers should respect and know that and never push.
xo,
Karen Beth :)
"This means I have been remiss in my teacherly duties"
not necessarily, nadine. more likely your students don't "have the bones" to do shoulderstand comfortably. as Paul Grilley says, "yoga is all in the bones."
when I train with him and he wants to show examples of the "winners and losers" (and you have to know him to know that he really doesn't mean you're a loser!) we line up for certain poses and he looks at our bone structure. someone with "winner" bones can do a pose easily, the "losers" can't. the angle of the neck determines who can do a shoulderstand comfortably.
for shoulderstand, he has us drop our chins to our upper chest. now take a ruler or stick, place it on the back of your student's neck going up the back of the head and look at the angle. less of an angle (i.e., the more upright the stick is) the more uncomfortable; more of an angle (in other words, the top of the stick is lower), the more comfortable the student will be in shoulderstand, neck-wise.
and if someone never does shoulderstand, what's the big deal? we're so attached to our bodies, to the "forms" that we are "supposed" to do. why?
"The catch is that after class, Mary is a judgemental and mean person."
sounds like those 30 years of yoga study really hasn't done much at all...have they?
all the technical knowledge doesn't mean anything if it doesn't evolve the heart.
Nadine,
I can completly relate to your concerns and questions -- is it appropriate to even introduce certain poses? The issue I find is in most classes there is a wide range of abilities. I don't introduce shoulderstand, handstand, headstand, or hand balances in a beginning class, because even if someone is flexible and strong it's the "awareness" that I stress when starting Yoga (and always). However, in one of my classes that's been going on for a while, we do shoulderstand sometimes--because their are folks really ready for it. In that same class there are folks really not ready. Ah, the dilema! I tell them what to look for (such as the Paul Grilley suggestion for the neck angle) to be sure they are ready. However, I do not play the parent. I literally say, "I'm not going to make you do or not do anything. If you want my recommendation, I will offer it, but I'm not going to make you come down." (I've only insisted once that a woman not go up--she has major neck issues. Regardless she says she does it all the time at home....)
This might not be the best approach, but it's the one I've taken to. Point is, I want to offer more challenging poses to people that can really benefit from them. At the same time, I offer info and guidance. But in the end, people will do what they want. "You can lead the horse to water, but you can't make them drink it." You offered alternatives (legs on wall), but you can't make someone not take it. Perhaps allowing each student to back off (and maybe bruise the ego a bit) 'on their own' is a lesson in and of itself.
Hope I'm not rambling too much....